Select Board Meeting Minutes 3/7/24

Select Board Minutes of the meeting of 3/7/24

Meeting Opened at: 5:30pm

Select Board Members Present: Justin Makuc, Chair, Susan Cooper, and Frank Abbott

Also present: Ethan Lively (Town Counsel/Harrington Heep), Steve Moore, Maggie Barkin

Also present remotely: Mary Aicardi (Collins Center), Ilene Marcus, Ellen Coburn, Rebecca Wolin

Items discussed:

1. Call to order 5:30pm
2. Instructions to attendees and explanation of Town Administrator interview process.  Public comment period will be after the interviews are completed.
3. Interview with Melissa Noe, current Town Administrator.
   1. The Board acknowledged receipt of application materials, including a resume and letters of recommendation.
   2. Justin asked Ms. Noe to discuss her experience and level of responsibility in municipal finance and budgeting.  And additionally, how she would work for a steady year over year tax rate increase.  Ms. Noe said that during her 18 and a half years, the last two and a half as Town Administrator, she has gradually become more and more involved with the town budget and its preparation, first aiding the very active Finance Committee and providing administrative aid, and then taking a more active role, collecting responses from departments and preparing the budget.  With regard to keeping the tax rate steady, she feels that that is a very collaborative effort, including the Treasurer, the Accountant, the Finance Committee and the Select Board.  She tries very hard to control the costs and is known for her efforts to be frugal.  Susan asked if there was anything else she would like to tell us about the process, or anything she would change about it if she could?  Melissa sees continuing to work with the Finance Committee and Select Board to enhance the budget workbook that she created and expanding on the Capital Planning Spreadsheet.
   3. Susan asked how she sees regionalization of services working for Monterey, both the pros and cons, and how she would approach this issue?  Melissa replied that this is a frequent topic of conversation with the Police Chief, the Director of Operations and the Fire Chief.  So far, we can’t really see a vision for regionalizing services because of the geographic limitations.  Fire Chief Tryon has certainly been in conversations with Otis and Sandisfield because of their proximity.  It seems likely a regional service would be difficult and also more costly, and it would require substations.  Sharing equipment has historically been very difficult from an insurance and responsibility standpoint.  The path forward is likely to be through administrative efforts.  Justin asked which service she felt was most likely to regionalize.  Melissa says she thinks Police would be the most likely, especially because of the changes required by the state in staffing, possibly a shared police chief could help that and then combining the forces.
   4. Frank asked Melissa if she is a manager or a leader.  And also to describe her Human Resources experience.  Melissa believes she is a leader and prefers a team approach.  She feels she has built a great team, we all bring different skills to the table and respect each other’s skills.  She prefers this approach, and she feels the staff respect that more.  HR is so involved now.  Until recently we relied on Counsel to guide us as issues came up, then recently we had Sophia Bletsos as a Human Resources Director and now we have transitioned to the Collins Center as a consultant resource.  Frank asked for further information about her supervisory experience.  Ms. Noe described her roles in two previous jobs.  Susan asked if there have been any examples from the last few years that speak to how you would like to grow in that role?  Ms. Noe replied that over the last two years relationships in town hall and the general atmosphere have improved dramatically, with better open communications between staff and between herself and boards and commissions.  She has weekly in person meetings with the Director of Operations and Police Chief.  She also instituted weekly action plans with Accountant, Treasurer, Director of Operations and Police Chief to stay on top of both regular and emergent items.  There seems to be general satisfaction with this system.
   5. Susan asked her to describe her approach to help Monterey get some housing for younger people looking to live in Monterey.  Melissa said that as we know she has Foresight Engineering working on plans for the property on Fox Hill Road.  If the Select Board were to sign off on that plan, she would reach out to Construct and other housing authorities in our area to see what they could do to assist us.  There are quite a number of grants that could help us.  Susan asked if she sees any other areas in town that might be suitable?  She has heard rumors that there may be some plans with the state that encourage owners to offer properties for reduced rents.
   6. Frank asked Melissa to describe her abilities and skills on researching and analyzing data on various issues and presenting options and recommendations to the Select Board.  Melissa replied that she has proven she is fairly good at research.  She has put forward several projects over the years.  She tends to produce lists of facts and possibilities and then look to Board for direction.  Justin asked if there were ways the relationship between TA and Select Board could be improved regarding this type of planning and report generation?  Melissa replied that she does prefer lead time, and that the individual weekly meetings are very helpful. Frank asked if she could describe her grant writing experience.  Melissa answered that so far she has applied for and received $1.72 million worth of grants, and described them in detail.
   7. Justin asked her to talk about her communications skills and preferences, including both the board, collectively and as individuals, but also other boards and commissions and members of the public.  Melissa answered that she likes having written records, usually via email.  She tries to make sure to recap conversations so there is a record and everyone is clear on what transpired.  With the public, she uses whatever they prefer, phone or email.  Susan asked what have she finds works to balance the need for clear communication with the Select Board with the guidelines of the Open Meeting Law.  Melissa says she is careful not to send emails so that responses may be accidentally sent to all members of a board.  She tries to provide a summary to the full board at board meetings.
   8. Susan asked how she would contribute to the Select Board goal of restoring civility in town discourse and how can you stay apolitical in a role that clearly has political aspects, always balancing what you can and cannot say?  Melissa feels she has built a strong relationship with most of the staff.  Sometimes people do come in with strong feelings and she does her best to listen to them and help guide them in a positive direction.  She definitely think things have improved in town hall.
   9. Justin asked how she insures transparency, particularly in financial matters for voting members of the public, but also for employees regarding any appropriate issues.  Melissa says she has gotten a lot of positive feedback about upkeep of the website and information availability.  She directs people to the meeting recordings.  She is always happy to provide people with any documents they ask for.  In the past, she prepared a letter that went out with the warrant to help explain any potentially contentious issues.  Susan asked for an example that might be right for that on this budget.  Melissa suggested the Fire Company and perhaps the trucks, as there is always interest in those.  Perhaps also IT, since it will be a significant increase over the past.
   10. Frank asked what question she wishes we had asked, and answer it.  Melissa said that she has put into place a number of things for town during her tenure as TA, including streamlining payroll and onboarding.  The Collins Center told her this was very progressive for a town our size.  There are still a few bugs, but the staff has been very patient.  She would also like to return to town departmental meetings.
   11. Justin asked her for final thoughts on why she should be our choice.  She hopes the Board will take into consideration my 18 years of experience here and all of the things she has successfully worked through with the town.  She has proven to be resilient and dependable, consistent and conscientious.  She asked the Board what they think the top three priorities are for the TA over the next year.  Frank responded 1) financial issues, 2) housing, and 3) helping craft a support plan for the Fire Company.  Justin said 1) serious long term financial planning and stabilization of tax increases and preparing for debts, 2) fully upgrading our IT and 3) bringing the by-laws up to date and cleaned up, all in a single PDF, although that one isn’t truly the responsibility of the TA.  Susan added 1) helping create systems so that turnover in Finance Committee and Select Board is smoother and increasing community recognition of capital planning, 2) housing for younger people, and 3) keeping Monterey a healthy social community.  Ms. Noe asked the Board what each of them had done in the past year to encourage and assist the current TA to do their job, expand their skills and better meet their expectations.  Justin responded that he feels the annual review, town-wide, is important to that process.  While only once a year, it provides an opportunity to assess performance and give feedback, both individually and as a summary.  He believes that is a huge step to help the TA meet the expectations of the SB; as are the conversations we have had about the job description.  He also felt that our individual conversations and meetings with you are part of that process, and the board taking our jobs very seriously.  Frank agreed that the annual review is important.  He added that sitting down with you and the former HR director was a very good opportunity to listen and to give feedback.  Susan said that the annual review is important.  But also that regular check ins with staff to ensure that if there are concerns, they get met along the way.  And to be available to the person to bounce ideas off of, which requires time to develop the relationship and trust on sharing ideas.  And the Board has also been clear that professional development is essential for all employees.  Melissa asked about empowering the TA with the authority to contact counsel and dismiss an employee.  Justin responded that while we discussed altering the job description, there were issues that could not be resolved because it was part of the contract.  With Town Counsel contact policy we developed that policy because not just the TA, but Select Board members and other board members were going to counsel to try to get opinions that reflected their narrative.  The current situation is somewhat cumbersome, but the previous one was also untenable.  He does think that moving that direction may be feasible.
4. Interview with Roger MacDonald
   1. The Board acknowledged receipt of application materials, and process was explained.
   2. Justin asked Mr. MacDonald to discuss his experience and level of responsibility in municipal finance and budgeting, and how he would work for a steady year over year tax rate increase.  He worked for the town of Needham for nearly 23 years, 15 as the Director of Information Technology, with a budget of approximately $1 million by the time he left.  Of course, they had to justify any significant changes, explaining each line item and reasons for any increases or decreases.  If any line item changed more than 3% it received additional scrutiny.  He was also involved with a significant capital improvement process, generally extending out five years, and projecting need for additional staff as well.  Year over year, he thinks we have to go back to the budgets, attempting to stabilize the operating side.  As part of the Finance Committee, it seemed to him that people here are fairly conservative, with only a few departments that are pushing limits.  He is a big proponent of looking back of what a department has actually done with their budgets.  With capital expenses, the loans and trucks, managing operating funds as well as free cash and stabilization can help us control the overall budget.  Justin asked about the IT budget in Needham with a breakout of expenses versus payroll.  Roger said that approximately 45% of the budget was payroll, and 45% expenses.  Also he had large capital projects, with maybe $500-600,000 worth of capital projects, often planned over a period of years, for both hardware and software upgrades.  Justin asked how approval worked in Needham.  Roger said that the Finance Director oversaw the process, in my case he was Roger’s direct report.  Then we went to the Town Manager, and there were a few other people in that group.  Roger sat on that group to make sure that other departments’ technology needs were being met.  Then as a group within the department they went before the eleven member finance committee.  Each department gave a presentation and answered questions.  Frank asked about total budget and size of staff.  Roger replied about $185 million, including schools which were about 65% of that.  He had five people working for him.  Susan asked how that process worked.  Roger replied that you get used to it, and if you had something you wanted you really had to justify it.  With IT, it was almost always software that was the issue because they typically saw 10% increases in cost per year, which is well above that 3% level for justification.  Susan asked if he sees any changes that should be made to our budgeting process.  Roger replied that the current system seems very reasonable.  A lot depends on the relationships between the Town Administrator and the Departments.  The only change he would foresee is putting a little more of the burden of large capital investment planning on the departments.  He feels like we began this process while he he served on the Finance Committee -- he created a form to help department heads work through this planning process.  But we don’t have a lot of departments that have to think too often about these large capital purchases.
   3. Susan asked how he sees regionalization of services working for Monterey, both the pros and cons, and how he would approach this issue?  Roger thinks that fire and emergency services/ ambulance are at the top of the list.  In my opinion is that regionalization is something that everyone is doing.  For a lot of towns it started with dispatch, a lot of communities tried to find savings, and this may be the only place we are likely to find savings.  But locally, through mutual aid we sort of already have shared services, even if we aren’t sharing dollars.  In regionalization, we are in already sharing services.  Fire districts may be the path through which we share dollars, though it may not actually save money, just move the dollars from the town budget to a separate tax.  What fire districting does do is that it brings everyone to the table, every property owner.  It is much more direct about how the costs are covered.  Justin asked about retirement and attrition there can be an opportunity to regionalize, as with the recent retirements in Sandisfield.  Short of retirement and attrition, how do you approach this sensitive subject with other towns.  First he would really try to understand who they are and how they view their community.  If Sandisfield is losing their fire chief, you have to know about their community to understand how to approach them.  For example, would the fire fighters in Sandisfield be willing to take direction from the Chief in Monterey?  In the end, not everyone is going to be happy.  And the recent effort to combine school districts certainly demonstrates some of the difficulties.
   4. Frank asked if Roger if he is a manager or a leader and why?  Roger said that you want to be both, but that he tends more toward the leader than the manager.  He understands the importance of management, and that you have to take responsibility for the long-term and day to day functioning of the department or the organization. 
   5. Frank asked him to describe his supervisory and HR experience.  As far as HR, he was the manager of five people, including having to interview and hire them.  As far as supervising them, he will not do their job for them, but he is there to help them.  He has had issues with difficult employees, including having to terminate employees and having to separate employees from each other.  Susan asked if he was able to help employees adjust when they were unhappy.  Roger replied that that situation did not have an ideal solution.
   6. Susan asked him to describe his approach to help Monterey get some housing for younger people looking to live in Monterey.  Roger said that he would track how Great Barrington is approaching this problem, for example they are investigating tiny houses.  We may not have to reinvent the wheel.  He thinks that in Monterey’s case the town may have to take responsibility for finding a location for workforce housing.  He has also talked to a few people, and wonders if there are any solutions through zoning, perhaps smaller lots or frontages in a “village zone,” including coverage.  Of course, you lost some control with that system since the owner could build those small houses but then do short term rentals or speculate.  So we may have to keep ownership of the property to maintain control over how it gets turned over.
   7. Frank asks Roger to describe his abilities and skills in researching and analyzing data on various issues and presenting options and recommendations to the Select Board.  Roger replied that this is one thing he does well.  He says he is extremely analytical, he likes to take in information and that is the heart of research.  And he tries to look at things from outside the box, making sure to get different perspectives.  Certainly, with crafting budgets we often had to find creative solutions to keep costs down.  Justin added that presenting suggestions is important and asked how he would do that.  Roger said that he is a story teller and he tries to put the data into a format that is clear and understandable and that he feels it helps inform decisions.  Frank asked about his grant writing experience.  Roger replied that he has limited experience, he wrote a community compact grant when Needham was converting to an online permitting system.  He also got a cyber security grant for analysis of the shortfalls of Needham’s security.
   8. Justin asked how often he worked with different departments and the state in his role as IT Director.  Roger replied that he did not have a lot of interaction with the state, although he did have some through Commbuys and over the community grants.  In my GIS days, I did have more interactions with people in the GIS divisions of the state.  It’s all about knowing who to call.  Susan asked if he is comfortable expanding on the grant writing for the town.  He replied absolutely, I even look forward to it.
   9. Justin asked Roger tell us about his communication skills and preferences, and to expand on how you would plan on communicating with board members, and the board as a whole, elected and appointed officials and town residents.  Roger said that he does like communicating via email, especially if it is specific to projects.  He feels he is pretty good at talking to people.  Sometimes with sensitive topics a face to face meeting is a better way to approach things.  It is essential to be available and open.  It is a bit difficult with the complexity of the Select Board and Finance Committee with only three members, especially when it comes to group discussions.  You really have to wait until a meeting.  With other boards you may have to focus communication with the board chair.  But he believes transparency is crucial.  Justin asked about members of the public, perhaps a disgruntled member of the public.  Roger said they are usually clear about why they are unhappy.  If it is something he can help them with, then I would try and follow up with the relevant department.  He thinks that ultimately it is up to the Town Administrator to find a solution for it, even if it means bringing it to the Select Board.  He sees the Town Administrator as a representative of the Select Board, and proceeding with the vision of the Select Board.  Ideally you want to resolve problems whenever you can.
   10. Susan asked how he would contribute to the Select Board goal of restoring and maintaining civility in town discourse and how he can remain apolitical in a role that clearly has political aspects, always balancing what one can and cannot say?  Roger said that he is not someone that riles quickly and has a lot of patience.  He feels that is very helpful.  Civility always starts with the people at the top.  We need to understand that we all have opinions, even when we don’t agree with someone else’s ideas.  At the end of the day, we are all human beings, and we have to try to understand other people’s viewpoints, even when we don’t agree, and even when people are aggressive in their communication styles.  He has learned over the years that he has to redirect himself if he gets too heated when discussing politics.  And connecting with this community has been an excellent way to harness his interest while leaving behind partisanship.
   11. Justin asked how he would insure transparency, particularly in financial matters for voting members of the public, but also for employees regarding any appropriate issues.  Roger replied that with citizens a lot of it involves just getting information out to them.  In Needham, Freedom of Information Act requests were very common.  There are a lot of ways to do this, we can put a lot of information up on the website, there are applications that will let you post your general ledger.  A lot of people get upset because they feel you are doing things without telling them.  The same applies to employees, we need to be straight with them when it is happening, and be proactive about it.  Whether its employee policy or by-law changes.  And involving people in the conversation helps as well.  We might consider making documentation available on the website or through other means, both before and after important decisions. 
   12. Frank asked what question Roger wished we asked that we did not and the answer to that question.  Roger said that we didn’t ask about municipal borrowing, and he does not have a lot of experience with that and it might be a challenge.  The Board agreed that the municipal borrowing formulas does not appear to make sense.  Roger added that another challenge will be developing relationships with all the town employees.  Trust is always an issue with the new hire, especially when they are in a top management position.  Justin asked how he will respond to that challenge.  Roger says it is really about time and communication, going to the departments and listening, ascertaining their needs and trying to make sure they are met, bringing them to the Select Board when necessary.  Susan said one piece is the other people, but what other challenges do you see in coming up to speed as a Town Administrator since it is a role you have not previously held.  Roger replied that the first step is the day to day, and going to the staff that works on those day to day issues, like the Treasurer and Accountant, and hopefully getting feedback from department heads and Select Board members.  It will involve delving into all the critical software, like payroll and bills, familiarizing myself with the website and different parts of the job.  He believes he will just have to dive in feet first.  He noted that municipalities have tried to years to write everything down and put it in one centralized location, but it never works that way because things change too rapidly.  He noted that Annual Town Meeting is not that far away, and mastering all the timing for that will be challenging, but manageable.  As a new TA, I would hope there would be support from the Select Board as well.
   13. Justin asked why he thinks he should be selected for this job.  Roger says he brings a lot to the table.  He brings a financial outlook, a collaborative mindset that he believes will bring stability, he lives locally and feels that gives him a stake in the outcome of everything.  Of course, that could be a bad thing, but he believes that with transparency and openness it can be a benefit.  Roger asked about timeframe.  Justin said the Board isn’t certain, but we are trying to proceed.
5. Justin allowed for comments and questions from the public, for no more than 30 minutes total, and no more than two minutes per speaker.  Steve Moore said that he thought it was an excellent range of questions.  He was interested in hearing what they had to say about informing the public.  He said that there was a period of time when Melissa was writing a Town Administrator report and for a while “employee corner” about things happening in departments.  He thinks it’s an excellent function and helpful for the public.  And he thinks it can really help with the whole civility question.  Ellen Coburn suffered technical difficulties.  Rebecca Wolin said that she is very happy with construction on Beartown Mountain Road and hopes we will consider redoing other dirt roads.  She asked that we consider Melissa’s past behavior and that we are involved in a major law suit that will cost the town money.  Ellen Coburn asked if there could be another time for public input.  Justin said that there was no one else looking to speak so she could speak for more than two minutes.  She doesn’t know Roger and was impressed by his manner and comments.  But she was shocked that there were no other applicants with Town Administrator experience.  Although Roger does have municipal experience she isn’t sure how applicable it is.  She would have preferred someone with experience in the position.  She recalled a thoughtful statement by Peter Murkett when employees came to support Melissa Noe, and hopes that we would go back and listen to his statement.  She works as an English as a second language tutor for a CEO, and his view of hiring was fascinating.  He said he used to believe that interviews and resumes were the best way to hire, but he no longer believes that, he thinks the best way is to follow up on recommendations, especially with follow-up by phone because people are not always as honest in writing.  Ellen hopes we will do a similar follow-up.  Ellen also said that Roger said he had no original intention of applying for this job, but she would have thought it would be more intentional.  Ellen then read Donald Coburn’s statement into the record.
6. Justin asked each Board member to identify the top two or three things they liked about each candidate.  Susan raised a question about checking references.  Frank and Justin believe we could offer the job pending reference check.  Mary Aicardi reiterated that any offer the Town makes should be pending reaching a contract agreement and a full background check.
   1. Frank listed the following positive attributes.  Melissa has a lot of experience, she has established a lot of contacts over the years and can get answers quickly.  Another strength is that she has gotten grants and seen them through.  Justin added that Melissa has longevity and a great deal of institutional knowledge about the town, and many contacts in other towns and the state.  Another strength he mentioned is dependability, especially with the day to day tasks of minutes, agendas, and bills.  She reliably gets them done.  Susan added to that keeping the website up to date.  Our Department of Environmental Protection Coordinator has mentioned that she uses our Transfer Station page as an example of excellence, which seems remarkable for the size of our town.  She echoed that the level of institutional knowledge and experience as a Town Administrator are significant, her experience grant writing and the support of quite a few of the town employees.
   2. Frank said he thinks Roger has been a quick learner concerning our budget process, he knows the right questions to ask, understands the challenges and will do research – we saw that last night about the IT providers.  Frank’s experience with him in both the Fire Company lease discussions and the IT service providers investigations is that he doesn’t shy away from the tough questions and is very articulate in how he presents things.  Justin feels that the Roger’s biggest strengths are his financial knowledge, asking the right questions, and creative solutions.  Another skill would be his level headed, analytical approach that we have seen throughout the budget process.  He is not only civil and calm, but explorative and productive.  Susan added that she liked the way he expressed his view of the five year horizon for capital planning.  She agreed with all of the issues Frank and Justin raised.  Susan noted that she was impressed sitting in with him in the departmental budget meetings that he pays attention to small details but also has a perspective on the bigger picture, he asks probing questions but does it in a way that doesn’t make anyone feel defensive, but encouraged them to answer thoroughly and accurately.  His communication skills and social interaction skills are excellent.  He is both a quick learner and open minded.  And he seems to have a truly collaborative approach.
   3. Susan noted that she had hoped we would attract some candidates with more direct experience.  Frank said that he prefers Roger MacDonald for his solid financial skills.  The town faces regionalization of services and increasing financial pressures and capital considerations, he came in and did due diligence on the IT services options – it is his field, but he didn’t take a simple answer, he questioned people very carefully, double checked answers to each question and confirmed that the quotes were correct.  He did the same thing in the conversation with the Fire Company.  He delves more deeply and doesn’t just accept superficial answers.  It is a challenge for him to come in here, and he is aware that it will take a lot of work for him to build relationships with the staff.  Justin said that he also prefers Roger MacDonald.  Justin believes that Roger’s communication, analytical and presentational skills are important for the town at this time, and combines it with municipal finance knowledge and curiosity and rapid learning.  It is a difficult decision.  He has municipal experience, albeit not as a town administrator, but Justin’s preferred candidate is Roger MacDonald.  Susan said that she likes both the candidates.  She continues to be concerned about the loss of institutional knowledge, all of the balls that the TA has in the air at any given time and the speed with which many answers can be obtained.  That said she totally appreciates the skills that Roger brings, the open-mindedness, the intellect, and the communication skills, she is just anxious about the balls that may be dropped during transition.  The transition is going to be a challenge.  Frank said that he thinks it is really important that we help the department heads cope with the transition.  It isn’t an easy decision, but we need to proceed.  We have to recognize the support Melissa has with many employees, but we also have to value our own experience in working with her.  None of us have taken this decision lightly.  Susan asked how Justin is feeling about the transition process.  Justin acknowledges that it will not be easy.  He is taking the long-term view, he knows we have to smooth out the transition as much as possible.  But one unique thing Monterey has right now is the level of civility and reasonableness we have.  He cannot say how that will play out, but he is hopeful that although it will be a difficult transition, it will be the right decision in the long term.  Susan feels both candidates bring a lot to the table.  She recognized that she may be risk averse with regard to the transition.  She might have been reassured by a candidate with TA experience, but sometimes people make these transitions very successfully.  She understands why it may be time for the town to have a fresh perspective.  Frank said that we will have to continue to be supportive of the managers and do our best to make sure that their issues are addressed.  Susan mentioned that change is hard and people often resist it.  Frank feels that the potential rewards are much higher from transitioning.  A motion was made to appoint Roger MacDonald the next Town Administrator, pending background check and successful contract negotiation.  The motion was seconded and unanimously approved.
   4. Justin made a motion that the Select Board enter Executive Session under Purpose 2: To conduct strategy sessions in preparation for contract negotiations with nonunion personnel (the Town Administrator), that Mary Aicardi of the Collins Center and Ethan Lively of Town Counsel be present for the executive session, and that the Board not reconvene in open meeting after the executive session. The motion was seconded and voted on: Frank—yes, Justin—yes, Susan—yes.
   5. Open session was exited at 8:28 pm.

Written by:

Susan Cooper, Select Board member

Approved by:

Monterey Select Board

cc: Website (www.montereyma.gov)

Select Board Members

Minutes Book

Town Clerk

Any documents used in the meeting are listed below and are available by request at town hall.

1. Application materials for Ms. Noe
2. Application materials for Mr. MacDonald
3. Select Board questions for the applicants
4. Don Coburn letter regarding the Town Administrator